2 – History of the Reform Party, NDP 2015 vs 2019, Trudeau No Plans for Coalition

CanadaPoli Canada Politics 40 Comments

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Preston Manning – History Lesson
https://twitter.com/BillArcher72/status/1187318270292123649/photo/1

Election Results
https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/federal/2019/results/

NDP Toss Mulcair over 95 – 44 drop in seats
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/politics/ndp-lost-election-because-of-weak-pitch-to-voters-internal-report-says/article29470754/

NDP 2019 – 44 – 24 seats

View post on imgur.com

Trudeau won’t have a coalition
https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/election-2019/trudeau-says-new-cabinet-to-be-sworn-in-on-nov-20

Comments 40

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    So we did no better the the reform party even with all the social media we have now. I still dont see how we can call this anything but a shit turnout. I know I’m the only one here that thinks that but I still dont see a good argument against it. We should’ve done better with all the extra avenues to engage voters.

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    The Reform party didn’t have a concentrated campaign against them, they didn’t have what should be nominal allies in the form of the cuckservative party attacking them as their primary enemy. The demographics were also better. Social media isn’t something that can only be used by us, it’s a tool that can be used by everyone. In fact in some ways it might be worse to have that as lies spread quicker than truth.

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    [QUOTE=”Cdnguy, post: 20843, member: 5″]So we did no better the the reform party even with all the social media we have now. I still dont see how we can call this anything but a shit turnout. I know I’m the only one here that thinks that but I still dont see a good argument against it. We should’ve done better with all the extra avenues to engage voters.[/QUOTE]
    Yes, but also many people who wanted to vote PPC were very afraid of vote-splitting and voted for Scheer. Many people. A lot were trying to get Trudeau out and realky thought they had to just vote Conservative. Add to this the terrible slander of Max from all media constantly, even tv shows like 22 Minutes(which is absolutely not funny anymore at all); it’s a wonder we got 292000 votes. Also add the stupidity of many people and the fact that some working Canadians were ‘too busy’ to look at news or debates to this.

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    [QUOTE=”Cdnguy, post: 21078, member: 5″]I get the reasons I really do I just dont see any way to spin it positive. All I see is we need to do more. A lot more[/QUOTE]

    We need to do anything and everything to win because winning is all that matters.

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    [QUOTE=”Cdnguy, post: 21081, member: 5″]We also need to play fair. I know you will disagree 😝 but I think we do.[/QUOTE]

    You’re right, I do disagree. I think we should portray that we are but the other side are enemies. Also I don’t believe in democracy so playing dirty isn’t against my principles. Many of the things that will help us win again are also things that will help the country in general, it’s just a happy coincidence and a few things can’t be done until we are done in power. People like Trudeau Sr. did the same thing as well, playing with their rules means losing at their game. Better to win I say. Though feel free to convince me otherwise.

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    Fair enough. Though for clarification I wouldn’t have done what Sheer did. It’s best to go after the biggest enemy, not a nominal ally, also going after the ones that are the worst is also better so the NDP could be a bigger target than the Liberals despite the Liberals being bigger. Lots of things can be done. The Conservatives should be a nominal ally but they have shown that they aren’t.

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    [QUOTE=”Cdnguy, post: 21102, member: 5″]Cons are not an ally. They should be but they are globalist and we are fighting against that.[/QUOTE]

    Exactly. I think they showed their true colours when instead of going after Justin Trudeau, which should be the biggest enemy Sheer has, he went after Maxime with [B]everything[/B] he had. It was despicable. Globalists and “fiscal conservatives” is all that is in the Cuckservative party I would say. Btw, a “fiscal conservative” is a liberal that can do basic math. Better than one that can’t, but a nationalist who can’t do math is better than a liberal than can.

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    [QUOTE=”Cdnguy, post: 20843, member: 5″]So we did no better the the reform party even with all the social media we have now. I still dont see how we can call this anything but a shit turnout. I know I’m the only one here that thinks that but I still dont see a good argument against it. We should’ve done better with all the extra avenues to engage voters.[/QUOTE]
    In hindsight I think the wrong issues were focused on. It’s hard to explain nearly all of the PPC issues without getting really thick in the weeds, but maybe foreign money laundering raising the housing prices would have been a better angle, there is enough evidence of snow washing out there. and I think enough evidence of the elite turning a blind eye to it.

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    [QUOTE=”Cdnguy, post: 21125, member: 5″]that was how kensella worked. it made the PPC talk about certain issues that they could use to paint them as bad people.[/QUOTE]

    I disagree. None of the issues makes them look bad. They were just doing typical marxist things. Associate them with something that is already bad for reasons that don’t make sense, in this case “racist”. Then it doesn’t matter what they say as they are bad people. Wanting less immigration, which is a majority view is now racist somehow and also bad (even though it’s good) because it’s the PPC saying it.

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    [QUOTE=”Classical Conservative, post: 21083, member: 189″]You’re right, I do disagree. I think we should portray that we are but the other side are enemies. Also I don’t believe in democracy so playing dirty isn’t against my principles. Many of the things that will help us win again are also things that will help the country in general, it’s just a happy coincidence and a few things can’t be done until we are done in power. People like Trudeau Sr. did the same thing as well, playing with their rules means losing at their game. Better to win I say. Though feel free to convince me otherwise.[/QUOTE]
    I will give it a shot.
    The PPC is suppose to be the [U]principled alternative[/U] and if you think you should portray something that you aren’t then it goes against that value.
    Also winning isn’t all that matters, the greens are highly influential they had their issues in every other party and they have very little power. the conservatives took a second look at foreign aid and I doubt they would have without the PPC influence.

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    [QUOTE=”Cdnguy, post: 21125, member: 5″]that was how kensella worked. it made the PPC talk about certain issues that they could use to paint them as bad people.[/QUOTE]
    If played right this can be used as a giant hammer next time around to really turn the conversation and framing.
    “Racist? no doubt another Kinsella plant!”
    “you found out about this issue suspiciously fast, are you working with the smear groups from last year?”

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    I’m not saying it’s not an incredibly hard tool to weild but there wasn’t evidence beforehand. like this story. One also doesn’t have to convince the smear merchant just their audience. Trump is playing the left wing MSM for fools in the states so it can be done.

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    Well the way I see it is our media self interested but not totally corrupt. I can think of a few bad actors for sure but I still see streaks of integrity. espcially after the election officies recognized the PPC as a legitimate contender. Ultimately Max got out immigrationed by the Bloc, out corruptioned by the NDP, out “government conscience”-ed by the Greens, and out liberal alternatived by the torys.
    combine that with attacks in his second language and it’s a big uphill battle.

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    [QUOTE=”Alex E, post: 21146, member: 175″]Well the way I see it is our media self interested but not totally corrupt. I can think of a few bad actors for sure but I still see streaks of integrity. espcially after the election officies recognized the PPC as a legitimate contender. Ultimately Max got out immigrationed by the Bloc, out corruptioned by the NDP, out “government conscience”-ed by the Greens, and out liberal alternatived by the torys.
    combine that with attacks in his second language and it’s a big uphill battle.[/QUOTE]
    Um
    I don’t want to be any of those things and neither should the ppc

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    [QUOTE=”Cdnguy, post: 21147, member: 5″]the media was sold out over 600 million. they are not on our side.[/QUOTE]
    Oh absolutely, but I don’t think the CBC has a top down like CNN to say push X story or else, like was reported a few weeks ago. I know that Wendy Mesley and her team have an agenda and there are other pockets like that. Most of the commentators, analyts and regular guests are just the aristocrats of old who scoff the under class with another name.
    Off the top of my head I know of a few pieces from the national post that show they are still trying to find the truth and would the globe and mail have even released the Kinsella story if things are as bad as some have said?

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    [QUOTE=”joe muferaw, post: 21148, member: 374″]Um
    I don’t want to be any of those things and neither should the ppc[/QUOTE]
    Maybe you misunderstood me but the PPC ran on all of those points.
    Lower immigration
    Cut corporate welfare
    Principled alternative
    to the LibCons

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    [QUOTE=”Cdnguy, post: 21150, member: 5″]they released the story to hurt the CPC. not some bastion of truth.[/QUOTE]
    My point is the situation in Canada is different than in the states and I personally think there are some good actors in the machine. If the conclusions I’ve read from some people out there were true, releasing the story at all would be counter productive to their aims. Ultimately don’t know how we crack the Canadian fake news machine but those are my observations.

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    [QUOTE=”Alex E, post: 21155, member: 175″] Ultimately don’t know how we crack the Canadian fake news machine but those are my observations.[/QUOTE]neither do i. we are on that journey together.

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    [QUOTE=”Alex E, post: 21129, member: 175″]I will give it a shot.
    The PPC is suppose to be the [U]principled alternative[/U] and if you think you should portray something that you aren’t then it goes against that value.
    Also winning isn’t all that matters, the greens are highly influential they had their issues in every other party and they have very little power. the conservatives took a second look at foreign aid and I doubt they would have without the PPC influence.[/QUOTE]

    Losing while having your principles is still losing, also my principles don’t include anything to do with democracy as I’ve stated. Now if it’s easier to win in a “principled” way then sure. I just don’t see any good reason to do that, morally or otherwise, if it harms the prospects of winning.

    Having said that, you do mention that the Green party is highly influential and that some of the policies of the PPC have gotten into the Conservatives. If that’s true then that’s a lesser form of winning. Gaining power isn’t necessarily required for winning, though it does mean one has won. If people are all arguing about different ways to implement the correct policies then it doesn’t really matter. Then it just becomes nice to win an election.

    Shifting the overton window is also a form of winning. Perhaps Max helped with that. I don’t know if your theory is correct on the PPC influencing the Cuckservative party, but if that happened then that’s good.

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    [QUOTE=”Alex E, post: 21146, member: 175″]Ultimately Max got out immigrationed by the Bloc, out corruptioned by the NDP, out “government conscience”-ed by the Greens, and out liberal alternatived by the torys.[/QUOTE]

    I disagree with that. I would say that the primary reason that people voted for Trudeau was because he wasn’t Sheer and the primary reason that people voted for Sheer was because he wasn’t Trudeau. There are other reasons including “we’ve always done it” or others that are equally ridiculous, but I would be willing to bet that most electors didn’t even know of the existence of the PPC. Maybe a significant percentage knew, but that’s not enough.

    Then there is the vote splitting thing, many were convinced not to vote for them because it will just “split the vote”. I don’t ever do that sort of thing myself, but there are many thousands, perhaps a couple million even, that do.

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    I was more expressing my views as to why people didn’t switch their vote for Max.
    It’s logical to vote for the incumbent especially if you like how things have been under them, or you’re just not paying attention to the system. I agree with your assessment on why people stuck with the establishment.

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    [QUOTE=”Alex E, post: 21177, member: 175″]I was more expressing my views as to why people didn’t switch their vote for Max.
    It’s logical to vote for the incumbent especially if you like how things have been under them, or you’re just not paying attention to the system. I agree with your assessment on why people stuck with the establishment.[/QUOTE]
    its a multitude of reasons
    i for one thought it would have been the progressives in power to p[lacate alberta .
    i think alot of it was the dont spit the vote.
    lets see what happens crowd.
    s you can see from marks video the reform went from 0 seats to Opposition.
    i think lura-lynn will replace max but max will be there in the background

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    [QUOTE=”Alex E, post: 21177, member: 175″]I was more expressing my views as to why people didn’t switch their vote for Max.
    It’s logical to vote for the incumbent especially if you like how things have been under them, or you’re just not paying attention to the system. I agree with your assessment on why people stuck with the establishment.[/QUOTE]
    One (perhaps small?) thing that was done on national news over and over to hurt Max was the tv kept showing footage of a billboard saying Say No to Mass Immigration with the picture of Max. We all remember it was another group altogether that did that but dumb, simple people saw this over and over and believed the slanderers/MSM because they didn’t know that wasn’t the PPC that made the billboards.
    If Maxime asked me what could be done differently next time I’d say to just soft-pedal a few of his points, just a bit another time. When a screechy news anchor yells about how he is against immigration, and he is NOT against all immigration, he could say I am NOT against it, I want lower numbers, or something like that. Maybe he could have not been so strongly vocal about the dairy cartel. In debates and when talking to MSM he could have said things a little differently but for alternative news he could have said things uncensored and more freely. He could have said if pressed about dairy farmers he wants to reduce payments to them, but not said it as a main point and so strongly. I am not criticising him as I love his platform, but those things could have been presented in a different way somehow. He didn’t have much time to deal with a lot of things that came up and I’m still very happy he got 292000 votes.
    There are better ways to figure what I’m trying to get at and I would try to tell Max his trouble has to do with these points. It can probably be fixed.

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    [QUOTE=”Cdnguy, post: 21191, member: 5″]He did say that.[/QUOTE]
    I’ve been trying to watch him lately but I know he just wrote on Facebook he will be not posting anything for a while, probably on Twitter too. I did see him say immediately after the election results that he will do a bit if consulting.

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    [QUOTE=”Alex E, post: 21177, member: 175″]I was more expressing my views as to why people didn’t switch their vote for Max.
    It’s logical to vote for the incumbent especially if you like how things have been under them, or you’re just not paying attention to the system. I agree with your assessment on why people stuck with the establishment.[/QUOTE]

    Yes I believe incumbants get a 4%-10% advantage for simply being the incumbent. A prominent example close to us is the US presidency where it’s been almost always 8 years of Republican then 8 years Democrat. 2 terms for each. It’s only been otherwise once or twice.

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    [QUOTE=”Classical Conservative, post: 21204, member: 189″]Yes I believe incumbants get a 4%-10% advantage for simply being the incumbent. A prominent example close to us is the US presidency where it’s been almost always 8 years of Republican then 8 years Democrat. 2 terms for each. It’s only been otherwise once or twice.[/QUOTE]
    [ATTACH]1377[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]1377[/ATTACH]

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